I've known Andy Turner for a number of years now from being a big fan of the Instigators and he's been involved in the Punk/HC and Metal scenes for well over 15 years now. He presently works at Plastic Head Distribution and recently released an album under the name Capability Green on Golf Records. This interview was conducted on the phone on 19/9/96 at 5.30pm.

Capability Green was a band I remember you mentioning some time ago towards the end of the Instigators, what was the original intention of the project and how did it come about ?

The original intention was to do a band at the end of the Instigators, but it didn't quite happen like that. To the extent that nothing happened really until this album surfaced, so in fact it's not a real band as such, it's sort of a...

Studio Project ?

Well yeah, a studio project which perhaps aims to become a band depending... I mean none of the people that are involved are that arsed about doing touring unless anything major happens like if it does sell alot of copies and people are going yeah, yeah and want to see ya then we might think about it but there's no point in playing fucking toilets and going to Europe to play to 20 people for the sake of a holiday, we've all done that before.

Are you getting some feedback from it now ?

Yeah...

I've seen some reviews in Real Overdose and Suspect Device and they were pretty positive ?

Right yeah, but you sort of expect that from people who were into the other stuff previous to that but I mean in Germany its getting really really good reviews...

But the Instigators were really popular in Germany anyway...

Yeah, Rock Hard in Germany we got a real cracking review there but most of the German mags I haven't had back yet with the reviews in so I'm still waiting on that but it seems to be going alright.

Did you send them out to all the metal mags then ?

Of course, as I said in Rock Hard, I mean fair enough it was in the hardcore column but it got a really good review in there, but it keeps getting Ok reviews in the metal stuff, I mean it has a metal tinge to it but I wouldn't say it was metal as such...

Some of the lead breaks are a bit metally but other than that... I mean so was some of the end of the Instigators stuff.

Yeah, it's a total sort of antithesis to clean pop-punk stuff that's around.

Speaking of which do you think that the music that's come from the underground has changed dramatically in that it isn't as political or social commenting as it was ?

I don't necessarily think that but it's so clean and tidy now, because everyone has got a big enough budget to afford to go into a decent studio. So alot of it does sound the same I mean alot of people get down on labels like Fat Wreck and Burning Heart for all the bands sounding the same but they've all got a set amount of money to play with, they can all afford to go into a decent studio and it all comes out really clean. To be quite honest I've stopped listening to alot of that stuff because it's just average. I'm listening to alot of garage stuff at the moment... I don't know whether to call it garage or not stuff like New Bomb Turks, Super Suckers and Helicopters aswell - I don't know if you've heard them ?

No, I haven't heard them...

Oh they're fucking brilliant... It's just dirty you know, it's got some anger and some angst where as alot of this stuff is big budget, over produced and not really what punk rock's supposed to be about but then again it's probably not punk rock!!! It's [in an American accent] pop-punk-hardcore, angst-emo-core or something like that.

Do you think that there's just too many labels on everything now ?

Erm Yeah, then alot of stuff has crossed over which is a good thing. I mean I'm not knocking it becoming popular it's also become bland and faceless alot of bands tend to blend into each other where as everyone seamed to have an identity before.

Like the same thing that happened with all the Doom-type, grind bands that became so much the same ?

Oh the Brit-core stuff, yeah I don't know if it was intentional for them all to get an identity or what but definitely alot of them got lost and they all sounded the same and what's the point in doing that. The thing is now there's alot more money around bands make a career decision to sound like somebody because they're popular and it's safe and an easy option so you don't get sort of off-the-wall stuff. Well you'll never get that that's gonna be popular but people should be striving for something themselves instead of fucking looking to other bands that have done well 'cos that isn't gonna happen again you know. Offspring have done well and Green day have done well, to an extent NOFX and Bad Religion but that day's gone now and the back lash is just around the corner, man.

So what do you see as being the next big thing ?

I don't really know to be quite honest in this sort of hardcore type thing, it's gonna be a kick back on these clean, sterile same-sounding bands I mean people are turning to the Exploited and GBH for fuck sake, older bands but at least they've got some energy left in them. GBH's new album is great, the Exploited album is brilliant!

Weren't you originally going to put this album out on your own label - Full Circle ?

Yeah, but alot of things happened with Full Circle and we couldn't do it basically.

Is it still functioning as a label or has it gone by the way-side?

No, it's definitely gone by the way-side. I don't have time to do anything like that at the moment.

Is the distro still going ?

In theory it's still ticking over but not to any great extent. The thing is with that we started doing that, well started doing that illegally back in 1986 really to sell our own stuff. Got a call, well the old guitarist from the Instigators (Simon Mooney - Ed) got a call from the Tax people for various tax problems and he got fined 300 quid for not declaring income that was made on tours. So we went legal with it. Basically we were doing fine for the first three years but at that time alot of the big Metal labels didn't have their own mailorders, they were concentrating on shops and when they started to get into it obviously you lose alot of sales there, 'cos people think that by going direct you get a) a better deal - which they don't and b) a faster service - which doesn't always work either.

The labels also realised that they could keep more of their profits..

Of course, there's alot more profit on direct stuff they manufacture and do themselves. Selling at full price without having to pay the shops their cut obviously you know...

Cash up front too, so they don't have to worry about losing a certain percentage of their stock aswell.

Yes, exactly and so that sort of went downhill from there.

What was the best release you put out ?

Erm, it depends in what respect.

Personally ?

Well I'd say the Spermbirds really, HDQ and The Instigators as well. They all did really well. 2 Bad we did, I thought that was a really good album...

That was the one with two albums on a CD wasn't it ?

Yeah the problem with that was we licensed that one for the UK like we did with the Spermbirds. The plan was that they were supposed to come over and obviously sell some on tour. It was fine on CD as it never came out in Germany on CD so we just traded that but on vinyl it had already been out and we couldn't offload the vinyl to the band to sell on tour because they never came over so they sort of fell by the wayside. Then HDQ did fine and then we wanted to put out newer bands like Frogs Of War, Decadent Few and Cringer - that did real well and Sanity Assassins that did alright but they weren't selling fast enough warrant us getting money to press new stuff which slowed everything down so alot of stuff we wanted to put out never came out, which was a bit of a pity but that's the way it goes.

Well you said that Capability Green probably won't a touring band, well it depends anyway. Where are the rest of the people, were they Huddersfield based or are they at all ends of the Earth ?

At the time we were all pretty close but I haven't seen any of them for years. I haven't seem the guy who did the drumming since we did it! John, the guitar player who was in the Instigators for a while he lives somewhere over in Lancashire. The Bass player lives in Huddersfield but I haven't seen him for a couple of years!

So if it does get popular enough will you just have to ring them all up or are you gonna sort it out with other musicians ?

I'd ring them first obviously but if they weren't up for doing it then.. I mean there's one guy who wants to do some guitar stuff and do it, but I'm too wrapped up in other things to do that 100% so it would have be down to them to do that and when they get their shit together, come to me and I'll quite willingly do that.

Is that because before you were arranging everything ?

Yeah, you get bogged down in that and you also live a double life, where you're in a band but also outside a band, while everyone's chilling out drinking a beer, kicking back with fucking groupies and heroin back stage, I'm having to go and collect money and haggle with somebody over 5O quid with promoters and shit like that.

When they're trying to lay room charges and microphone hire down on you...

Whoops, Yeah we've had that one quite a few times actually.

So you're down to 20 quid by the end of the night!

Yeah.

It's been a while since the Instigators days have you missed playing live and breaking limbs ?

I don't know, maybe. I've actually always involved in actual touring after that.

Yeah with Peaceville..

Yeah I was working for Peaceville, tour managing for alot of bands. I did the first Paradise Lost dates in Europe. I did Gothic tour, My Dying Bride. Managed Anathema which was great. I went everywhere with them - Romania, we did Brazil. Well they were really up for it all, they're probably not now and want to take the money and run like every over metal band, but they were really adventurous and they were up for doing these places where no other metal bands actually went to. Brazil were great, it were a one off something that would never happen again. Romania just happened out of the blue, we did a one-off in Malta with them...

Malta ?

Yeah, which is pretty small, but there were about 350 but it's a vibrant scene all within a compact area. So we had 5 days in Malta for one show which was in summer. We did a festival in Napoli on the beach, the stage was actually on the beach so we had a few days there and went to Pompeii and that. Just alot of out of the way places that bands don't usually go to, but there is big scenes there I mean Romania was 5,000 the first show; Brazil was 8,000 it was brilliant. So I've always been involved with that but you start to get a bit complacent, I mean these bands were getting paid at lot more than what the Hardcore bands were at that time, but that's changed now and I don't think there's much difference as Hardcore sells as much as metal now, if not more.

I mean Hardcore bands get alot of press in Metal Mags now...

Oh yeah, that just didn't happen at that time. You were literally putting your own money into it and hoping in them days where as it's, you know, bands have got it easy now. I don't like to sound cynical but they have and hopefully that was due to what alot of people were doing back then.

Yeah like the bands who lost out then have paved they way for the bands who now can reap it all in...

Yeah that's right but I think that always happens but you don't worry about that. I mean I'm still involved with everything I was like 15 years ago only now I'm getting paid for doing it now, which is like a fucking bonus and not having to worry about other people which I had to before.

So when you were Tour Managing did you find it alot easier than being a playing member in a touring band ?

Oh yeah, it was a piece of piss! Really easy, I mean alot of this stuff in Europe is like signed, sealed and delivered. You don't have to worry about hassling anybody. You just go in check everything's Ok, make sure the band goes on stage and then you just go and collect the money. I mean with the Hardcore things it was like that in Europe except for maybe Britain... (much laughter followed that) ... where you had to really chase these guys up to make sure you even got your travelling expenses. In one sense it's really annoying because these bands really do have it easy but then that also means it's more sanitised and there isn't so much fun.

I think it's still difficult in the UK now playing small venues probably because they're (the Venues) trying to scrape a living...

I think that's due to Economics, I mean we are the poor man of Europe and you've got to like face up to that, it's not Great Britain anymore. You get no support from the music papers to start with, they're all pushing Britpop and there's too many bands and not enough money.

I saw you said in Real Overdose that you think that there are too many people doing bands, labels or zines and not enough actual punters ?

Well, Britain is a notorious country of blaggers not just in music but in every field. I mean Britons abroad are just on the blag and there's only really British people that do that. Skanking stuff is just second nature to British people, taking something off someone without having to pay for it. (more laughter) Maybe it's just the way we're brought up, everyone everywhere else is quite content to pay for it and stand there in front of bands and watch 'em. Where in Britain they're all trying to hang around backstage to get free beers, pretending they're doing something they're not.

Huddersfield has had it's fair share of bands and of course the excellent Vision On fanzine, what's cool and happening at the moment ?

I'm not quite sure I mean, there's one really good band that deserve a mention and that's Stab Happy.

They've got some tracks out on that Golf compilation haven't they ?

Yeah, they've got 2 tracks on that, they're getting a really good response obviously not so much from the Hardcore side of things but more from the Metal mags who are really up for it and the ones that are into The Victory sort of stuff, you know harder edge stuff. They've got the potential to do alot, other than that I don't know 'cos I'm down here all the time so I don't really get to see many new bands. I think there's a few bands up there but it's a very localised scene but you've got Leeds on your doorstep, Manchester just down the road, Sheffield's not far away so people go there. Besides, the sort of pub venues there's not that many places to play which stifles things. Things were really happening late '80s early '90s.

Explain to me the nature of the title of Capability Green's album 53310761 it's not an overseas telephone number is it?

No, well we've got a competition in Suspect Device any who can tell me what it is. It is an actual number for something, it's not made up.

Is it a barcode ?

No, but I was a little bit worried that they might take it as the catalogue number, but it's not. I'm not going to tell you. Well alright I will but don't print it.

OK?

It's *£$!**@~#^%

That's brilliant, that's great.

We used the title what it was going to be on Never Has Been on Retch. The Instigators stuff wrapping up all the compilations, demos and live stuff.

Didn't you go to see the Pistols when they played in Huddersfield many moons ago? No.

Didn't you I thought you did ?

No, too young me.

Were you, really ?

I was just a whipper-snapper, a] I was too young and b] it was only a 500 capacity you know.

Anyway what did you think about them reforming and did you consider going to see them?

I did think about going but I didn't think about paying for it. (laughter) In true British fucking style. But I thought it were cheesy at first but I heard the actually tape of it.

Yeah, I listened to it on the radio and I thought they sounded really good.

Yeah, it did. They've still got attitude which is what alot of bands don't have.

I mean to get that many people in one place, it's no mean achievement I mean they weren't exactly playing to thousands of people, except maybe in America were they ?

No, they probably played to more people than they ever have, I mean good luck to them. You can't knock that 'cos they're never gonna see that in pop music and stuff, they've got a hang up about older people I mean look at blues people for instance.

They mature, the older they get the better they are.

Look at Chuck Berry he's still knocking around and he's 69 or 70! It shouldn't be a problem but it is and it happens to be in pop music.

I think it's the music papers they have you written off at 21.

Of course it is, the problem is we have weekly music papers whereas everywhere else have monthly ones. So everyone else has a longer shelf life or table life or what ever it's called in Europe to start with and people have alot more chance to sit back and think about it for a month until something else comes out, where as here it's weekly and you're just bombarded with it.

And it's hard enough getting the content together for a monthly thing let alone a weekly publication so it becomes so pretentious.

Yeah, I mean it's not good enough for Britain to put out a good album anymore, there's got to be an angle or a story or a catch or you know.

Bullshit ?

Yeah, it's all tabloid at the moment everything is tabloid journalism in the music business here. Where as in Europe they tend to be more laid back and actually like the music they're writing about.

Well it makes a difference. Anyway, moving on what question would you have asked yourself ?

Ohhh, erm...

and then answer it!

Erm I don't know that's fucking hard that one isn't it ?! What would you be doing in ten years.

Ok, what would you be doing in ten years ?

I don't really know. Going by the last ten years I'll be doing something similar to what I'm doing now. I've been involved in sort of every aspect of the Music Business and hopefully I've learned quite alot from that. I'll be here, alot of bands we deal with won't be I know that, it's quite funny really you get alot of bands that are cocky and arrogant and think they're the best thing in the world but you just laugh at them and think yeah, you can be like that now but look at them in 5 years and they'll be signing on. Washed up, signing on and no one will fucking remember ya! Not that anyone remembers who I am, but I'm easy about that. I went from playing to working behind the scenes and I'm quite happy about that.

Would you still like to think that you'll be recording the odd album in ten years time?

Maybe, you know it's not a big deal that to be quite honest. There's no rush to put anything out, when it comes it comes.

Just take things as they come eh?

Yeah, like the Stone Roses can get another one together before we do! [Laughter] There's more chance of Elvis doing one than we are in the near future.

You covered Sympathy For The Devil on the album, do you like the Stones or did you just fancy doing it ?

Yeah, in a fashion but not more so than any other band. It was just something we were mucking around with in the studio and we just decided to go for it, it was pretty much a spur of the moment thing really.

Any final wisdom to bestow on fanzine land ?

No not really. Get more advertising in so you can put it out more regularly so that you might be able to compete with these weekly and monthly magazines. I mean fanzines are fine but alot of them are too irregular and when you're dealing with stuff like this that turns over that quickly you need something that comes out more regularly.

OK thanks for ringing Andy ?

OK, cheers fella, I'm off to play my first competitive 5-a-side football match tonight.

Is that to do with work ?

Yeah, some guys here have got it together I don't know who we are playing, I haven't got a clue.

On that note I'll end it here, we talked a bit more about other stuff but it's a bit irrelevant really. Andy is a real sound guy with alot of interesting things to say and Capability Green are a good band so check their CD out. For more info:

Golf Records, Unit 15, Bushell Business Estate,
Hithercroft, Wallingford, OX1 9DD, UK.